We talked with Rob about:
- How coaching and personal introspection can help advisors who feel stuck or overwhelmed recalibrate their North Star to regain momentum and feel more fulfilled
- The importance of defining success and purpose to develop tactical, realistic goals that align with the overall vision for your life
- Why advisors should continually focus on fresh conversations and enhancing their client experience rather than relying solely on technology or tools
About Rob Brown:
Rob Brown, founder of Truest Fan Coaching and host of The Purpose-Focused Advisor podcast, is a self-proclaimed cheerleader of the financial services industry. Rob spent over 25 years as a financial advisor and practice owner, where he discovered a deeper purpose in coaching. Now, he focuses on empowering financial advisors, planners, and RIAs to develop highly profitable, purpose-driven, and client-centric businesses. Rob’s industry expertise and client care insights encourage advisors to explore their purpose and foster creativity to help drive growth, deepen client relationships, and achieve fulfillment. In this episode, Rob shares how he helps advisors define success, set realistic goals, and differentiate themselves from automated tools and technology.
Featured Resources
- Truest Fan Coaching
- Connect with Rob on LinkedIn
- Free Download: Business Optimization Scorecard
- The Purpose-Driven Advisor Podcast
Enjoyed This? You’ll Also Love:
- Time Management and Helping Advisors Focus to Find Success with Jody Jacobson
- How Lifestyle and Solo Advisor Firm Owners Can Grow Business Intentionally with Natalie Bergsma
- Trends and Strategic Steps for Growth for Advisory Firms with Jake DeKinder of Dimensional Fund Advisors
Full Audio Transcript:
00:00:00 - 00:08:22
Lauren Hong
Rob, thank you so much for joining us today.
00:08:25 - 00:10:14
Rob Brown
It is great to be with you, Lauren.
00:10:16 - 00:40:19
Lauren Hong
Yeah. So, for those who are listening, we've got Rob Brown. He is the founder of Truest Fan Coaching and also has a podcast as well called The Purpose-Driven Advisor. We were just chatting before we got going. I'm really excited to hear more about your story, about how you really help others find their purpose, as we were talking about earlier — what that means, unpacking that and specifically for our community, the financial services community-at-large. I know you've got deep experience in this world, in this space.
00:40:19 - 00:48:24
Lauren Hong
So let's just start there. Tell us a little bit about your background, and how you got to doing what you're doing today.
00:48:27 - 01:19:27
Rob Brown
So a long time ago, I started in the financial services industry as a financial advisor and ran my own practice for about 25 years. And while I was doing that, I had the opportunity to also be part of an executive management team in a fairly good-sized investment firm in Richmond, Virginia. And in that role, I was able to do a lot of coaching and mentoring of other advisors.
01:19:29 - 01:46:23
Rob Brown
And what I discovered is I began to enjoy the coaching and the mentoring I was doing more than the work I was doing with my clients. I said this is probably a sign that it's time to sell your practice. And I had a great partner who acquired my share of the practice, and she went off to run it and work with our clients, our private clients.
01:46:23 - 01:53:21
Rob Brown
And I ran off to work with other advisors. She called it you're running off to herd cats.
01:54:08 - 01:54:14
Lauren Hong
(Laughing)
01:54:18 - 02:09:18
Rob Brown
In some cases, she was absolutely right. But I love being a cheerleader for this industry and in particular for financial advisors and all RIAs who have such important work they do for their clients.
02:09:20 - 02:23:15
Lauren Hong
Oh, my gosh, it's so true. I feel like in talking with so many firms, it's not about the money, right? It's about more and more about the purpose and what have you. So tell us a little about that because that's being able to tap into what you really enjoy.
02:23:15 - 02:37:28
Lauren Hong
And then you made that adjustment. How did you get your coaching business going? And were you initially working with other advisors or how did that all kind of come about?
02:38:00 - 03:08:22
Rob Brown
Well, because I had been in the industry and in a leadership role, I had a lot of connections in the industry, which led me to do more training programs for the firm I left as well as some other firms I've gotten to know through some industry associations. And then that just sort of morphed over the years into wanting to work more with advisors on a one-to-one basis.
03:08:22 - 03:19:18
Rob Brown
I love my private client coaching and then also doing it in small groups and roundtables where we bring groups of advisors together and work with them around a common theme.
03:19:20 - 03:46:12
Lauren Hong
So to help us understand how you're coaching advisors, where do you start with this conversation? Because there are so many things you can unpack if it's related to the business or personal or HR or all this kind of stuff. Where do you start with those conversations? Or maybe what's a trigger issue people have when they come to you as a starting place?
03:46:15 - 04:16:13
Rob Brown
They're usually one of two. One is an advisor who is having success. Maybe he or she is making more money, has a bigger business than they ever thought they would have. But it's become too much about the numbers. And they've been convinced over the years that the way you measure success is by piling on more AUM or increasing your GDC or whatever it might be.
04:16:13 - 04:41:03
Rob Brown
And they realize, I get that and I want to keep doing that. But I also have some other things that are important to me and my business and the things that I have some interest in are unattached. And I want to try to bring those together. So that's kind of the first group. They hit a plateau and they're looking for some purpose and to share that in their business.
04:41:12 - 05:02:28
Rob Brown
And then the second one is similar but not exactly the same. There are just too many hours in the day, just so busy, that they don't have the time or the skill set to be able to understand how they break down what they're doing in a way where they're really working in their zone of genius.
05:03:25 - 05:16:04
Rob Brown
And the other members of their team who do some of the things they may be micromanaging, do better than they do because they have their own zone of genius.
05:16:06 - 05:34:21
Lauren Hong
That makes sense. Helping people, aces in their places, that delegator or die syndrome, if you will, for what's important or not, it's always a hard thing for, I think, all of us. So tell us a little bit more about how do you unpack that purpose with advisors.
05:34:23 - 05:51:07
Lauren Hong
Is it a series of questions you take them through? Is it exercises? I'd love to hear a little bit more about how you help them figure out how to connect the dots for their own purpose.
05:51:10 - 05:57:04
Rob Brown
Sure. It's hardly ever exactly the same.
05:57:07 - 05:57:26
Lauren Hong
That's fair.
05:57:28 - 06:14
Rob Brown
Yeah. It starts with questions.
06:16 - 06:29
Lauren Hong
Okay.
06:01:07 - 06:32:00
Rob Brown
But sometimes those questions are hard for advisors, business leaders, owners to answer because they've never stopped to really think about them before. But sometimes we'll get there quickly and there is a purpose, a stated purpose. This is what I want to do. This is how I see my business creating legacy, ideas of the future. And we can build around that and figure out where they need help inside their business to get there.
06:32:06 - 06:54:09
Rob Brown
Yeah. Other times we go through a longer series of exercises. Maybe we'll even give up a little bit on digging too deep into why, just to be able to move forward with some opportunities to create some quick wins and some opportunities to see some light at the end of the tunnel in the business, especially for those who feel overwhelmed.
06:54:15 - 07:21:14
Rob Brown
And let me go back to that why question, why do you do what you do? What are your biggest dreams? And then and then I try to dig deep because I think oftentimes just by asking somebody a question like, where do you see yourself in 10 years? You get somebody to answer a question with a few why, see this, this, this, and then you stop and say, well, tell me more.
07:21:16 - 07:39:17
Rob Brown
Why did you say that? Let me repeat back to you what you just said. And then they get to really free up their their mind and they can dream and they can imagine and they can begin to pull that purpose together. And then we can decide how we are going to attack that.
07:39:17 - 07:48:08
Rob Brown
How are we going to make things happen in your business, in your life, in light of that dream, in light of that purpose?
07:48:23 - 08:06:23
Lauren Hong
So these are tough conversations, right? I mean, you have to kind of be mentally in a place to be able to be open to that and then have the time and space. If someone were to engage in this kind of exercise, can you talk us a little bit about kind of timing? Is it the time is now?
08:06:23 - 08:28:01
Lauren Hong
Is it when they're going through a sabbatical, maybe they are at a transition point in their lives or something that's triggered them? Is there any kind of timing you think someone should look out for when it would be good to make sure they've got the kind of breathing room to to digest these questions and what have you?
08:28:04 - 09:01:22
Rob Brown
Yeah. So the two ways I suggest people come to me show themselves in lots of different ways and so that to me creates the opening, for example, somebody is wondering about what's next? Why am I really doing what I'm doing? And they're also hearing at the same time all this chatter in the industry about you have to have a succession plan, you have to build a legacy — that just creates that opening.
09:01:29 - 09:30:25
Rob Brown
And for financial advisors, you would think it would be easier because those who do serious financial planning see this all the time with their clients — they ask these big questions. But they don't always get the full answer. But they do know sometimes a client comes to them because there's something going on in their life where they have some questions or they want some answers.
09:31:06 - 09:59:21
Rob Brown
But they don't know exactly what the questions are, what the path is. And so I really think, and this maybe sounds self-serving, you can start this process at any time but you have to be open to change and open to doing things maybe differently than you've done them before. And the end result is usually after about three or four months in, they'll say, why didn't I start this years ago?
09:59:25 - 10:08:03
Rob Brown
Because they realize they could have made more progress and felt more fulfilled if they had just gotten an earlier start.
10:08:27 - 10:25:24
Lauren Hong
So as you're going through this process with individuals or groups of people and you're helping to peel away like, okay, this is where you can be your best self or you can have your sort of peak performance. You talked about those kind of micro wins, those daily wins for how people can take it from big picture to small.
10:26:09 - 10:39:19
Lauren Hong
Can you talk a little bit more about how you help individuals to really lean into their best self once they figure it out, like, okay, this is my north. This is my professional north, this is my personal north.
10:39:19 - 10:44:24
Lauren Hong
What's that next layer, breaking it down to those objectives?
10:44:26 - 11:08:00
Rob Brown
I use a process that I call the Truest Fan Blueprint. And the Blueprint starts with what we've just been talking about but then we break that back into shorter periods of time. So if we're really doing some serious long-term dreaming, thinking out 10 years or more, bringing that back to maybe what's your vision for the next few years?
11:08:06 - 11:35:06
Rob Brown
For most of us, that's a more realistic time frame to think about. And so we'll set a three-year vision, where we'll start putting more specifics to what the advisor or the team is trying to accomplish. And then we'll create a one-year plan. And then that one-year plan gets broken down into 90-day sprints.
11:35:14 - 12:02:19
Rob Brown
And so that creates the opportunity to say, okay, I know what I need to do over the next 90 days that will lead to my one-year goals, which puts me on the path to that three-year vision, which puts me on the path to that purpose. And then we get very tactical. We say, okay, if we've got this action plan, this 90-day sprint we're working on, let's make sure the things we're doing are quick wins and needle movers and not just more thinking about thinking.
12:02:22 - 12:10:14
Lauren Hong
Yes, that makes sense. And just to clarify, is this for both the business that you build this plan and for the personal or is it one in the same?
12:10:16 - 12:35:16
Rob Brown
It really depends on the client. I have some clients who have very specific personal plans that they want to really keep very separate from their businesses. But in most cases, because the advisors I'm working with are either a sole advisor running a big practice or a few partners working together, the two can come together.
12:35:18 - 12:46:17
Lauren Hong
Okay. So then when you're building these plans, are you typically doing it for an individual or for teams, or does it just depend on the situation?
12:46:19 - 13:18:25
Rob Brown
It depends on the situation. But if we're working on it at a business level or a team level, we're inevitably going to find things that different members of the team need to be focusing on to affect that goal they're working toward. And so at that tactical level, there's probably more where we'll split things out and say you as the business owner/leader really need to be focusing on this.
13:18:27 - 13:25:11
Rob Brown
And the other members of your team need to be focusing on these things but you're working toward the same common goals.
13:25:13 - 13:51:03
Lauren Hong
Or scoreboard it out, if you will. Interesting. So I know there's a lot of firms we work with that use EOS as a model. So when you're sort of talking about your long quarterly 90-day, it sounds like you could see some parallels with that. I know EOS has the VTO. I don't know how familiar you are with EOS but that’s the vision tracker.
13:51:09 - 14:07:09
Lauren Hong
It sounds like a lot of the work you're doing, which is so critical at the beginning, is really unpacking the why and the purpose. What are we doing? What is the bigger picture? Because you can storyboard and you get into the specifics without kind of looking out to see what is actually north?
14:07:15 - 14:16:16
Lauren Hong
And you could be going down a path that doesn't make sense for a long time before you actually answer those questions. It sounds like there’s a lot of upfront value in those conversations.
14:16:18 - 14:47:24
Rob Brown
Yeah. I'm a big believer that most of us don't do things that are purely original. We all learn from our experiences and other processes we've been through to recreate our systems and EOS is among many systems I've had exposure to, over the years, that have helped me create my Truest Fan Blueprint.
14:47:25 - 14:53:20
Rob Brown
It's a similar system with its own intricacies.
14:53:23 - 15:13:12
Lauren Hong
Yeah, just from business learning and practices, like setting KPIs and what have, breaking it down, all of that. So interesting. But it's really like breaking down those pieces for the advisor and where they can align their true north to make a difference.
15:13:12 - 15:27:26
Lauren Hong
So what you talk about helps you to be able to grow faster, right? What does that look like for firms when they're like, okay, we've got a good groove with things as they're moving forward. We've got these plans in place.
15:27:26 - 15:35:01
Lauren Hong
How do you track that once it starts moving forward? So they can create that growth for whatever power that's defined for the firm?
15:35:03 - 16:01:19
Rob Brown
Well, the first thing we do is define what that growth looks like, because growth in this industry can sometimes be very arbitrary, there are different ways advisors’ practices can grow. We have had in this industry a lot of wind in our sails for several years, where growth can just come from the market doing better, and clients’ assets growing, and then you get a certain level of growth.
16:01:19 - 16:32:18
Rob Brown
And then there are opportunities to deepen wallet share and get more opportunities to work with existing clients. And then the opportunity to add new clients with new assets and new opportunities. And so I like to make sure we're looking at all three of those things. And what I find is most of my clients where growth is one of their primary drivers — and for some, they just know growth is going to be a byproduct of the other things they do — they don’t even put a number on the board as to where they expect to be.
16:32:18 - 16:55:16
Rob Brown
But those who really do want to focus tend to think of it in terms of how many new ideal clients do I want to add this year? Because you can make the case that if you go up, I have a chart that shows up.
16:55:16 - 17:21:19
Rob Brown
But if you go up this pyramid, where you're working with more and more ideal clients, over time your business becomes more, grows faster, becomes more successful. You're working in the places where you really want to work. So if we can create a focus on growth and say my goal this year is to bring in 12 new $2 million clients, one $2 million client a month.
17:21:22 - 17:28:20
Rob Brown
That's going to give me the growth I need on top of any growth I may get from the market or any opportunities I may get from existing clients.
17:29:28 - 17:47:20
Lauren Hong
Oh yeah, that makes sense. And also, just from a fulfillment standpoint, if you're working with more of your ideal clients too, right? I mean, you're probably going to enjoy the industry they're in or their stage of life or what have you. And then that helps with the fulfillment piece of it.
17:47:20 - 17:52:04
Lauren Hong
And you're probably going to do a better job at your job. And then kind of just thinking full circle about it all.
17:52:04 - 18:13:13
Rob Brown
So yes, absolutely. And I think the other thing it does is it helps you identify, again, if you're in that growth mode of what activities do you need to be engaged in from a marketing and sales and prospecting perspective to give you the audience you need to be able to add whatever that goal is for those new ideal clients.
18:13:13 - 18:15:21
Rob Brown
So it helps you set more clear targets.
18:15:27 - 18:34:05
Lauren Hong
Yep. That makes so much sense. We talked a little bit about client service, right? Because as a company grows, sometimes the client service component can sort of sag a little bit. Or you've got to tighten it. It gets more complex within the CRM or how you segment clients or what have you.
18:34:07 - 18:56:27
Lauren Hong
I’d love to hear a little bit about that, how you're talking with your clients about that. How they can keep that exceptional customer service or client service because that's so paramount to this industry, taking good care of people. And really leaning into that human touch. I’d love to hear a little bit more about your thoughts on that.
18:56:29 - 19:18:28
Rob Brown
Yeah. This is actually a big focus for me and several of my clients this year, because one of the things I came to a realization of last year, especially as I was doing my podcast and talking to some advisors I've not worked with, there's some creativity really needed to determine how do I really add value?
19:18:28 - 19:44:20
Rob Brown
I have my service model in place. I have my communication standards in place. And my clients are taking them for granted. In fact, some clients don't even want to come in and see me because they think I'm just going to have that same old conversation with Rob, and he's just going to tell me everything's good and it's like going to the dentist every six months.
19:44:20 - 19:48:15
Rob Brown
I know I need to do it, but if I go, yeah.
19:48:18 - 19:49:01
Lauren Hong
Yeah.
19:49:08 - 20:36:21
Rob Brown
And one of my podcast guests, a fellow named David Brown, no relation, said that. That's what he believes. We should see those client relationships — it should be like the client wants to go back to that dental appointment, to those reviews, because there's some excitement around the conversations they're having — you as my advisor are giving me the opportunity to think even deeper and more creatively about the things I want to do when I retire and how I can get engaged in philanthropy during my lifetime and and have more impact in those causes I care about.
20:36:21 - 21:04:21
Rob Brown
So the review meeting is part coming in and looking at the numbers and then in part saying, okay, how are you doing toward those things that are really important in your life, to elevate those conversations. And then that can turn into different systems for creating recurring content that helps the advisor stay in touch with that client.
21:04:24 - 21:14:21
Rob Brown
Again, not just on the numbers, not just with performance reports, but around what that advisor really has grown to know about what's important to that client.
21:14:23 - 21:38:20
Lauren Hong
Yeah. So interesting. And I think really important. The deeper conversations are not that upfront but they're adjusting in terms of clients moving through their own life and their particular circumstances to make sure the question helps them align the numbers. Another sort of way to say it.
21:38:20 - 21:58:19
Lauren Hong
There was a Kitces article that came out, sort of flashback to five, six years ago when robo advisors were the thing, right? And now there’s AI and all this other stuff. And it was talking about how that fear a lot of especially large firms had at that time has sort of faded.
21:58:19 - 22:16:25
Lauren Hong
And I think it's because of the human element. And so it was to your point of being able to ask these deeper questions, adjusting as people are moving forward, having those human connections is so critical. So it's interesting to hear you're leaning in on that as a component of success for firms.
22:17:01 - 22:38:19
Rob Brown
I think it's extremely important. And it's just a matter of coming up with different questions because, I think, Lauren, you know and I know the way we grow in relationships is by asking questions and listening and having conversations but sometimes you have to change up the question so you don't get the same old answer.
22:38:22 - 22:43:13
Lauren Hong
Yeah. It's so true. It's a people business.
22:43:13 - 23:15:22
Rob Brown
One thing I would really suggest advisors think about because you mentioned the term robo advisors, is — I don't know if I've coined this phrase but I have used it a lot — I think too many advisors are becoming human robo advisors. Because they have this technology stack, financial planning tools, or their investment management tools that allow them to do their asset allocation.
23:16:14 - 23:46:14
Rob Brown
A conversation can be all about the printout or the projection on the screen of the plan or the portfolio. And all they're doing is perpetuating the fact that they aren't needed as an advisor. They've become the robo advisor. And so to advisors, I'd ask, have you really thought about how you are improving your client experience every single year?
23:47:05 - 23:50:11
Rob Brown
Because it needs to get better every single year.
23:50:13 - 24:14:00
Lauren Hong
Yep. We see that in marketing too, where we'll see this across the financial services industry or space — people thinking just by this big cold list of contacts, just do mass outreach without any warm conversation or taking the time or what have you. And they spend all this money, it just kind of falls flat and they're left scratching their head.
24:14:00 - 24:33:04
Lauren Hong
It's about relationships. It takes time and the extra effort to be able to make it personal, to be able to make people feel noticed and heard. And you can't put a number, a value on that. And that's part of that customer experience. That's part of the relationships like you were alluding to. So I hadn't heard it kind of curt like, pinned that way.
24:33:04 - 24:43:25
Lauren Hong
But you're so right. Especially with all the noise with AI this past year, all these things. So it's sort of almost too much.
24:43:28 - 25:19:08
Rob Brown
Almost too much. Although I would say AI can actually help you accomplish that more personal contact. But that's the thing about most tools and most new things, we've got to understand how they really work. And one of the things I always think about — I was talking with an AI expert a couple years ago and he suggested the best way to use AI is make sure whatever you're using it for, you are the expert and you're using it to help you do what you do better.
25:19:15 - 25:30:05
Rob Brown
Don't go to it as the expert. Maybe if you're doing some research and you're trying to gather information, that makes sense. But yeah, I think that's where it really comes into play.
25:30:08 - 25:50:29
Lauren Hong
Yeah, it is a leveraging tool but not to replace the thinking or your voice or tone or what have you. Oh my goodness. Okay, we could go on this topic for a while too. I want to be mindful of time but I’d love to hear anything you want to make sure to touch on, any kind of closing thoughts or resources where folks can learn more.
25:51:02 - 26:11:02
Rob Brown
So, as I said earlier, I'm a huge fan of financial advisors and I love to connect with people on LinkedIn. I'm on LinkedIn all the time and share a lot of content there. You mentioned my podcast. I'm sure a link to that will be in the show notes. But if you're looking at your business, say, how do I optimize?
26:11:02 - 26:27:25
Rob Brown
How do I create more purpose behind what I do? We have a tool called the Business Optimization Scorecard that you can get by going to TruestFan.com/scorecard. It's a free scorecard you can download and do a quick look at your practice.
26:27:28 - 26:55:20
Lauren Hong
Oh that's great. We'll have to make sure I include a link too. So that's fantastic. Well, it's been so wonderful having you here to share a little bit more about your background, your story. You've got such a great story about how you started and then where you are today. And, I appreciate you taking the time to do really deep work to help individuals and firms really figure out their purpose and where they're going and then map that against the day to day of their practice goals.
26:55:20 - 26:57:29
Lauren Hong
So thank you again for your time.
26:58:01 - 27:03:25
Rob Brown
Oh, thank you for having me.
