We talked with Jackie Benjamin Hatherley about:
- Why successful firm operations are ultimately about people
- How firm leaders can effectively communicate change and goals to create a unified vision without overwhelming their teams
- Ways in which firms can keep goals and messages relevant by explaining the “why”
About Jackie Benjamin Hatherley:
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley, “opspert” and founder of RIA Ops, has over 25 years of operations expertise, specializing in helping registered investment advisors embrace the human side of operations. Through flexible fractional COO and leadership coaching services, Jackie helps firms unlock the power of people in driving operations excellence to ultimately promote efficiency, innovation, and streamlined processes. Through consistent communication, explaining the “why,” and keeping goals relevant, Jackie’s tools and human-centric approach assist firms in fostering a culture of trust, purpose, and empowerment so operational decisions feel right — not just right on paper.
Featured Resources
- RIA Ops and Complimentary 30-Minute Consultation
- Jackie Benjamin Hatherley on LinkedIn
- Patrick Lencioni’s 5 Dysfunctions of a Team
- Patrick Lencioni’s Death by Meeting
- Simon Sinek’s Find Your Why
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Full Audio Transcript:
00:00:00 -00 :07:13
Lauren Hong
Jackie, thank you so much for joining us today.
00:07:15 - 00:09:24
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
Thank you, Lauren. I'm looking forward to this.
00:09:25 - 00:30:03
Lauren Hong
Yeah, this is fun. Just chatting with you before this, hearing a little bit more about your background. So for folks who are not familiar with you, you are the founder of RIA Ops or Operations. And, really, I know you've been, as your website says, and I was literally like the same words that would open my mouth in the trenches as a CEO, with firms.
00:30:03 - 00:43:12
Lauren Hong
And so I'm just going to pass it over to you. How did you get into the space? Have you always been in an operations role in the CEO role? Why wealth management? Tell us a little bit more about how you found this particular, group and where you are.
00:43:13 - 01:06:07
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
Yeah, absolutely. And I wish I had some sort of epic story to tell you about. Yeah, how I ended up in the industry but it wasn't intentional. Right out of college I was given an opportunity to take a temporary two-week assignment as a receptionist at Raymond James.
01:06:11 - 01:12:28
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
Oh, wild. Yeah, it was, and especially since I had majored in theater in school.
01:12:28 - 01:18:20
Lauren Hong
It's two weeks too. It's not like it's two months or two years or something like that.
01:18:23 - 01:42:29
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
Exactly. So it was one of those things that I was like, yeah, you know what? I can answer the phone. I can be a receptionist and, go figure. It's 26 years later; I'm still here. But one thing I did want to touch upon, especially for new people coming into the industry, sometimes they feel intimidated because they're like, I don't know what I need to know about investment management.
01:42:29 - 02:05:16
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
Maybe I don't have the technical skills but in my case, I felt the same way. And literally not even before my assignment was up, I was offered a full-time sales assistant position. But the beauty of our industry is there's something out there for everyone. And for me it was the people. It was the human side of things.
02:05:16 - 02:27:17
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
And I didn't even know that existed in wealth management other than, okay, yes, we have clients. But just the relationships we would get to build with clients and operations. I quickly moved into the branch operations role and operations was really exciting for me because and I know it's kind of like, really not for us all.
02:27:19 - 02:39:01
Lauren Hong
It's what makes the beast grow, that internal engine. So it's one of the components of it. But anyways no thunder.
02:39:01 - 03:08:22
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
Yeah. But that's exactly a puzzle piece it let me play with. It was a great space to play in because I got to figure out solutions to problems. I got to be creative about it. But I really got to work with people in that capacity, in that role. And I was so lucky because I got to witness how effective operations can really support not just the business side but the people side.
03:08:24 - 03:23:11
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
And I'm talking about clients. I'm talking about my team members. So that was really exciting for me. And I've spent the rest of my career blending those two. So I've been really lucky.
03:23:13 - 03:46:26
Lauren Hong
So tell me a little bit more, because I feel like operations you can enter in all sorts of situations, right? I mean, things that are not built out, like overly complex and I'm sure there's so many people challenges, so many things to sort of tackle. So when you're partnering with a firm and you're sort of shaping out that entry point to put together, kind of next steps to get into the weeds.
03:47:01 - 03:57:00
Lauren Hong
What does that vision exercise look like when you're talking with leadership to really identify priorities and really how to prioritize specific to their operations?
03:57:03 - 04:29:04
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
Yes. So I probably approach it a little differently because I'm not as regimented. So when I started RIA Ops, I wanted to give advisors an alternative to hiring a full-time CEO, full-time director of ops. So when I am engaging with advisors, I want it to be a partnership of sorts. So a lot of times when I am engaging, the leadership knows this is what we want to focus on.
04:29:04 - 04:54:16
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
This is what we want to do. And a lot of times it's more of an exploratory exercise. So we really discuss what our priorities are by talking through what are the pain points, what you know, and sometimes we organically stumble upon it. You know, it's not this formula because they'll be talking about it and then they'll say, oh, and this is happening.
04:54:16 - 05:09:07
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
So we may have been focused on one thing. And then throughout the conversation it's like, oh no, no, no. This is the root of the issue. Otherwise we're putting this Band-Aid on it if we don't address it properly.
05:09:13 - 05:26:24
Lauren Hong
Yeah, that makes sense. So out of that conversation and it's funny, we see the same sort of thing too, especially as we're really unpacking the brand. And there's words people say just naturally that really help us to pin down a true identity for who people are, right? Sometimes those things aren't obvious. They cannot be pre-calculated.
05:26:24 - 05:43:02
Lauren Hong
They have to sort of be organically fleshed out. So what's the deliverable or do you work with them to put together a deliverable or maybe a separate team to sort of say, okay, this is our grand plan, or what does that look like?
05:43:04 - 06:04:29
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
So it really depends, because it's customized per firm that I work with. So a lot of times it's, hey, can can we come in and have you take a look and give us recommendations and the deliverable will be a recommendation. And whether they choose to continue engaging my services to bring those to life.
06:04:29 - 06:39:03
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
And we identify those initiatives or I'm just there as a support for them to tap into when they need to. And as we discussed before we started recording, I'm finding a lot of advisors are struggling with the management piece, struggling with the people piece of things. So some of the deliverables I've been working with for teams is going in and doing one-on-one meetings, coming up with formalized roles and responsibilities for their teams.
06:39:06 - 06:56:18
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
Taking a look at let's revamp your org chart. If you don't have one, we'll create it. But taking a look at where those gaps are, where those redundancies are, DISC assessments. So depending. Yeah, I will talk about that. I'm such a desk nerd.
06:56:25 - 06:59:18
Lauren Hong
Yeah it's okay. We love it over here to our whole team.
06:59:18 - 07:02:03
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
Looks good though. Yeah. Awesome.
07:02:06 - 07:04:12
Lauren Hong
Yeah.
07:04:14 - 07:18:20
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
So it really depends. So the deliverable will depend on how deep they want to get into the engagement. What level of interaction they want for me, what level of support. So it's really flexible.
07:18:22 - 07:36:17
Lauren Hong
So I just returned a few weeks ago from a Dimensional Fund practice management symposium, and it was so funny. EOS. I don't know if you use EOS or you plug in other systems. It came up. I feel like there was a question at one time, how many firms use EOS, firms of all different sizes, so many arms shot up in the room.
07:36:20 - 07:47:08
Lauren Hong
And I’d be curious, are you working with EOS or other kind of pre-built frameworks like that?
07:47:08 - 08:08:07
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
Not yet. So I am familiar. So what ends up happening again is as if you had an actual CIO in office. If there is a program you want to incorporate right into your practice, I will go do the vetting for them. I will implement it for them. I will show them how to use it.
08:08:07 - 08:30:17
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
If you want me to run it, I will run it. So EOS is obviously a little more complex because there are lots of elements of EOS that I do incorporate into my engagements. So piece of all of this is, hey, we have that flexibility. What have you been curious about?
08:30:19 - 08:34:04
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
Let me go do the legwork for you and make it happen for you.
08:34:04 - 08:56:22
Lauren Hong
Yeah. Oh my gosh, EOS is very complex in a good way. It's complex but simple. But you were talking so many things about people challenges, the right people in the right seats and things of that nature and really identifying key plans. So I had to ask. But shifting topics a little bit, once we've got an idea of kind of marching orders, where are we going.
08:56:29 - 09:17:09
Lauren Hong
What are our specific priorities? Are our initiatives various scales and sizes? Can you talk a little bit more about really how do we clearly communicate that to teams? And I love to lean into the idea of clarity. Because clarity so important. Identify the big picture. But how do we then let that waterfall across at work?
09:17:09 - 09:28:23
Lauren Hong
And I'd love to hear a little bit more about how you really help coach leaders to make sure they're communicating their vision to the team so you can really all get behind.
09:28:25 - 09:55:01
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
Yeah. And the one thing I do want to start off with is just saying clear, empathetic communication is so crucial. Whether your leaders are trying to align with their team members, whether we're rolling out new initiatives, and also it has to be consistent. So communication is never going to be a set it and forget it.
09:55:05 - 10:23:22
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
And sometimes leaders feel like they're a broken record. But you need to be because you keep that vision and that message relevant and upfront. And so to dive into it a little bit, when leaders are trying to align, I recommend having a candid dialog with their team about what is the goal, what are our values.
10:23:24 - 10:51:10
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
And I want to kind of dive into why we talk about the values. But say, for example, a leader is saying, okay, we want to increase client engagement. Well what does that mean? Yeah. It's something very different to the leaders than it is to your ops team, to your clients, to your marketing. So it's really important for not only leaders to explain why it's important.
10:51:13 - 11:17:08
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
Why does it matter to our organization and what we're trying to accomplish? But once they hash out those details and talk about increasing client engagement — so is that going to be shorter response times? Is it going to be higher client touchpoints? Is it going to be more customized investment portfolios for clients?
11:17:08 - 11:44:00
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
But when they hash that out and the sooner they do it in this process, the sooner they're going to create a unified vision that's going to trickle throughout their organization. And there's also a lot of confusion that sometimes comes about because the leaders will say, principals of firms will say, well, not everyone's on board with this step or this step.
11:44:02 - 12:02:04
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
They don't need to be. So they don't need to be on board with every step of it. But they do need to be on board with the end result. We've all got to be headed toward that same direction. We don't have to all agree where we're going to stop going there but they have to agree on the values.
12:02:04 - 12:06:20
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
So our core values, because that's what's going to guide our decision-making process, right?
12:06:20 - 12:33:23
Lauren Hong
That's right. The right fit for the people for the team you've got and the energy and the culture you're creating. So just to kind of back up, there are two things I want to ask. So when you talk about defining those goals, are we talking about specific KPIs? Are we talking about literal definitions to these objectives? Just trying to get an idea.
12:33:23 - 12:51:27
Lauren Hong
Is it like KPIs for the company, for specific departments, for individuals? I’d love to hear about how you get clarity with that big picture objective to sort of break it down so it feels tangible for someone who’s literally on the ground trying to implement whatever their job is.
12:52:04 - 13:16:07
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
So it's like peeling back an onion on that. And yeah, it's a great question. And I'm like, oh my God, I can approach it from all these different ways. But so we're talking about when we're aligning and we're talking about goals, and I use the example of increasing client engagement. You know, it could be anything that's bigger.
13:16:07 - 13:39:26
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
Like as a firm, these are our revenue goals. This is who we want to be. So we want to remember what vision is — it’s what we're taught. So there's vision and then there's goals underneath that vision. So our vision as an organization, for people who aren't familiar because sometimes I get asked what's the difference between vision and mission and values and all of this.
13:39:29 - 14:01:18
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
So our vision is who we want to be. Who do we want to be to the people we're serving? Who do we want to be in the community? And our mission is how we want to get there. How do we plan on getting there? So, our goals; I feel this is my definition of it is and people can probably have a different definition.
14:01:18 - 14:09:11
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
But our goals are what are those subheadings that fit under that massive umbrella that is our vision.
14:09:14 - 14:12:27
Lauren Hong
Yes. So your initiatives.
14:13:00 - 14:41:22
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
Yeah, exactly. So I think of goals as initiatives. Some firms have them quarterly. Some firms have a big overarching initiative that goes through the entire year. So let's talk about once we've identified what that is, how does leadership communicate that to a team? So I definitely recommend framing it in a way that you are rolling it out to the people it pertains to.
14:41:24 - 15:10:22
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
Let's talk about departments. That's probably the easiest segment. So if we're talking about enhancing our client experience as an initiative, well, when we're talking to marketing, we're going to have targets, or KPIs of okay, do we revamp our materials? Do we update our website? How do we communicate our commitment to our clients? Client services department, they're going to look at it differently.
15:10:22 - 15:33:09
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
We're going to look at, hey, how do we make those touchpoints more meaningful so we're deepening that relationship. So KPIs associated with that. And we'll talk about tools they can use to keep track of KPIs if that's okay. But you know, when we're talking to the portfolio management department, what are we doing to help customize our advice?
15:33:11 - 16:10:17
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
So by doing that, we're not overwhelming our team members with a bunch of information that they don't necessarily need know but we're keeping them informed. And I also always recommend that leaders set up a space where their managers, their departments, their teams, however they're built out — it's going to be different for everyone — but they have a place where people can ask the questions, they can make suggestions because that builds that culture of ownership, empowerment.
16:10:19 - 16:20:23
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
And they feel like they're active participants, not passive receivers of a message. So that's really important.
16:20:27 - 16:37:10
Lauren Hong
I love that; that's such a good line: passive receivers of a message. It's so true. You don't want to be just talked to, right? But you're involved and engaged. And you have that buy-in and you can see how that impacts your day-to-day and ultimately maps back up to the bigger picture.
16:37:13 - 16:39:14
Lauren Hong
I feel like we could we could talk about all this for a long time.
16:39:18 - 17:03
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
I know, because the next thing that came to me when you were talking about that, Lauren, the word that came to me is the why. And I do want to touch upon that as well, because that's such a huge piece of communication. And when big decisions are being made, people get scared when they have that passive seat.
17:05 - 17:27:19
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
So when we allow people to understand the why behind bigger decisions we're making in our practices, when we allow our team members to understand what their contribution is to our overall vision, that's just magic right there because it changes people's mindsets. Everyone wants to feel like they have purpose.
17:27:19 - 17:35:28
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
And you know, trying to explain to them where they fit in this equation is essential.
17:36:01 - 17:53:28
Lauren Hong
I love that. So I do want to touch on one other point of it. So we talked a lot about kind of rolling these pieces out across departments and teams. And we talked about how we make sure we've got that drumbeat so people can be involved with it. They can ask questions or what have you.
17:54:00 - 18:15:13
Lauren Hong
But once you've set that off and rolling is there a recommended frequency you encourage leadership to be that broken record? Is that monthly at all-hands meetings? Is it in one-on-one meetings regularly? Is it quarterly? How do we not let that message just kind of be there?
18:15:13 - 18:17:22
Lauren Hong
And then it's just sort of like faded out into the sunset?
18:17:22 - 18:36:23
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
Now that's such an amazing question. And it goes hand in hand with the fact that communication needs to be consistent. And so the frequency is really going to depend — I know I keep saying it's going to depend.
18:36:25 - 18:38:00
Lauren Hong
It's unique to each firm.
18:38:00 - 19:08:06
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
Yeah, it's unique.. So I joke I say regularly, and sometimes advisors are like thanks, Jackie, what does that mean? And so let's talk about rolling it out. Again, in the spirit of trying not to overwhelm your team members with too much information, initially I would recommend that leaders roll it out.
19:08:07 - 19:33:22
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
Whether it's a team meeting, town hall type thing, where they do that initially provide the information on the vision or the goal, explain why it's important. Again, going back to that why and then diving into the granular where they start meeting with the departments. Now let's come up with the game plan. This is how we're going to do this.
19:33:25 - 20:02:12
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
So also another thing leaders can do is once they've rolled it out, have a space where they have shared documents. Is it a video we keep revisiting? Is it an internal page? Again, keeping the message alive, keeping it relevant but also providing your team with a resource team leads can use for their team members.
20:02:14 - 20:30:05
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
So frequency, to to kind of go back to that question. So if it's something you know is organization- wide, maybe monthly makes sense; if we're looking at smaller pilot type projects, maybe biweekly makes sense. But the idea here is to balance the depth with the frequency. And what I mean by that is to be relevant.
20:30:08 - 20:38:01
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
And you want to make sure when you're having these meetings, it's not just to have a meeting. Are you familiar with death by meetings?
20:38:03 - 20:42:23
Lauren Hong
Yes. I'm familiar with the expression but it sounds like an unpack there.
20:42:23 - 21:06:05
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
Yeah. So Patrick Lencioni, and we're going to talk about him too, in terms of a tool. But he wrote this book called Death by Meeting. And it's kind of misleading because you think, okay, we're having too many meetings. His premise is we're not having enough meetings and we're not having enough relevant meetings. So we kind of force people to be in a team meeting.
21:06:05 - 21:27:09
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
And one of the complaints I hear is we're having to sit and listen through something that doesn't even pertain to us. So it's not about cutting down on meetings but it's about structuring your meetings so there's more relevancy to them. And that way we're not overwhelming people or it’s like the Charlie Brown teacher hearing the wha, wha, wha.
21:27:14 - 21:43:12
Lauren Hong
So it’s like the death by PowerPoint expression to you, right? It's just not relevant. Or maybe it's relevant but it's just not clicking.
21:43:14 - 22:08:28
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
Exactly, or where you keep going on and on about it. It's like, okay, we got it in the first 30 seconds. And I empathize with advisors because team meetings are difficult; it takes effort to put together an agenda, takes effort to facilitate it. And sometimes they feel like they're just standing in front of a room and just talking at people.
22:09:01 - 22:26:17
Lauren Hong
Yeah, I know there's a balance but if it doesn't happen, then like you said, you have to be, especially as you grow your team, that broken record with the messaging and for it to all really. So again it's a balance but oh my gosh, this is so fun. I feel like we have so much more to even unpack.
22:26:17 - 22:49:11
Lauren Hong
We're just scratching the surface here. So I really appreciate the expertise you're bringing to the table because I've been in the trenches. And that's the whole role. But then how you do you really think about big picture and then here's a waterfall across the board with that clarity being constant. So, any other things you want to make sure you share or key takeaways where folks can learn more?
22:49:13 - 23:21:21
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
Yeah. So I really think the main key takeaway I'd like to share is oftentimes we think operations is all about efficiency processes, the technology. But ultimately it's about the people and it's about centering our focus on the people, whether it's our clients, our colleagues, ourselves. And I really feel like once we do that, we come from a place of making decisions.
23:21:24 - 23:49:06
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
And they feel right. It's not just because we're making a decision because it looks right on paper. And so that sort of philosophy and that sort of approach really helps firms to thrive because they're building a foundation of trust. They're building a foundation of purpose. And that's something I am so passionate about trying to bring to the wealth management space.
23:49:06 - 24:13:06
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
And I feel like more and more advisors are getting on board with that and realizing, I can do the churn and burn model and I can still grow but hey, I want a team that plays with me, that grows with me, that kind of sounding board and partnership on this path to growth and helping our clients.
24:13:09 - 24:30:08
Lauren Hong
We love that. There's a quote. It's not just about the people. It's all about the people. And at the end of the day, it's about values. It's about creating that right culture. And it's through that that you really can grow. Well, Jackie, thank you so much for your time today.
24:30:08 - 24:33:23
Lauren Hong
And folks can learn more at RIA-ops.
24:33:25 - 25:06:22
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
Yeah, it's, ria-ops.com. It has my email. They can set time for a free 30-minute consultation. Again, just to kind of talk through. And I've been so lucky to build a network that if that's something I can't assist with, I have resources to refer them out to. But there are so many resources to help advisors with helping to manage their teams, helping to implement their visions, their goals, risk assessments.
25:06:22 - 25:30:11
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
As we talked about Patrick Lencioni, someone to definitely follow. He also wrote The 5 Dysfunctions of a Team. And then also Simon Sinek, Find Your Why. And how that pertains to our every day. So there's so many tools out there. I’m more than happy to talk to anyone who wants to hear about those and just get to know what's going on in their practices.
25:30:16 - 25:34:06
Lauren Hong
Great. Jackie, thank you so much. I'll make sure to link below as well. I appreciate your time today.
25:34:08 - 25:42:03
Jackie Benjamin Hatherley
Thank you. Thank you. This was fun.
