We talked with Spencer about:
- How to manage the implementation of Salesforce sustainably over time
- Compliance and other issues around using Salesforce in financial services
- How to know if you need Salesforce and particular products, tiers, and integrations
About Spencer Lowe:
Spencer Lowe, CEO of SOLVD.cloud, was interested in entrepreneurship from a young age, starting with mowing lawns and door-to-door sales. Inspired by his father's late-career business venture, Spencer pursued his ambition to start his own business, earning a master's degree in information systems management. He began his career at a firm, where he honed his skills as a Salesforce consultant. Recognizing the rapid growth in the Salesforce market, Spencer founded SOLVD.cloud in 2019 to tackle its inefficiencies and the high costs faced by companies. Initially serving a broad client base, SOLVD.cloud refocused during the COVID-19 pandemic on high-tech SaaS and financial services, sectors that saw increased spending during this time. Today, SOLVD.cloud is renowned for its expertise in these areas, empowering businesses to revolutionize their CRM systems by optimizing tools and products to enhance workflows and drive growth. Emphasizing project management and technical expertise, SOLVD.cloud cultivates top Salesforce consultants and is thriving under Spencer’s leadership.
Featured Resources
- Spencer Lowe on LinkedIn
- SOLVD.cloud on LinkedIn
- SOLVD.cloud on Twitter
- SOLVD.cloud website
- SOLVD.cloud on YouTube
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- Website Redesigns: The Process Behind Building Websites for Financial Services Companies
Full Audio Transcript:
Lauren (00:02):
Spencer, thanks for joining us.
Spencer (00:04):
Yeah, my pleasure.
Lauren (00:05):
Yeah, so we just did a podcast. I had the opportunity to be on your podcast, Lessons and Leverage, which was super fun, getting into the nuances of really being able to identify mindset or different components that help entrepreneurs and other individuals really do their best work and propel forward. So we can link back to that but today we're going to get a little bit more into what you guys do over at SOLVD.cloud. So looking forward to hearing more about Salesforce and specifically what you do with the Salesforce component for financial services companies. So before we get into all that and the nitty gritty there, I'm going to hand it over to you. Tell me a little bit about your background. How did you get into the space, all of that?
Spencer (00:51):
Sure. Yeah. Well, I started being an entrepreneur when I was a kid and was mowing lawns and doing door-to-door sales and had a lot of interesting experiences that got me kind of thinking about wanting to build a business and I watched my dad spend a lot of years in really safe, safe career moves. And then toward the end of his career started a business and I saw how that impacted our life. And so I knew at some point I wanted to create a business. And so as I was going through college and getting a master's in information systems management, I was looking for a role where I could really acquire a lot of skills, build high-value relationships. I found myself at a firm called Chiasma, which is German for intersection. It was kind of the intersection of business and technology; it was their thing. And we did a ton of Salesforce consulting. That was the primary focus of the business at the time, and so was developing those skills. I realized this is something I'm sure I can build on my own. And so about six years ago I started SOLVD and we were able to build the company from there. Now we have about 62 consultants worldwide and quite a bit of work.
Lauren (01:58):
Amazing. Okay, so you basically came from this previous experience and then you got this company going. What was the gap in the market you saw to be able to get this business running?
Spencer (02:10):
Well, there's a couple of things with that. I mean, the first was just that the market was growing so fast. So part of it was just a demand issue where even an average partner in our space when I started this company was growing at like 23% a year.
Lauren (02:21):
Oh my. Gosh. Significant.
Spencer (02:22):
Knowing that's the average for that market, that was a market I really thought would be smart to start a business in because I thought I could be above average. And so we grew triple figures every year for the first three, four years, way outpacing that average. But that was the first element — just seeing such a good market opportunity. The second component was the firm I was working at got acquired by an accounting firm, and we went from this fast-paced, high-tech, results-oriented entrepreneurship culture to a very bureaucratic, slow, heavy, expensive type process. So that shift wasn't super comfortable for me and I wanted to go back to doing what we were doing before for clients. And so I saw an opportunity to take everything I learned from operating these multimillion dollar projects and bring that expertise down to a much faster pace and affordable offering for the small and mid-sized customers I wanted to go back to working with.
Lauren (03:16):
Okay. So tell me about that. Are you guys exclusively in financial services or not exclusively?
Spencer (03:20):
So when we first started, I would take anyone who had Salesforce — just trying to get traction. But a couple years in COVID happened. I looked at our pipeline and realized all of our pipeline dried up and many of our projects went on hold, at least during the initial fear of COVID, except for my clients that were either SaaS, like high-tech, SaaS businesses, and my clients that were financial services companies. Both those businesses were actually increasing their spend with us. And I was like, well, that's interesting. And so I told my team, we're going to focus explicitly on these two areas to try to get through COVID. So originally it was kind of a specialization out of necessity to try to profit from and succeed during COVID. And actually what happened was as stimulus money and all the different things happened, tech firms started spending a ton with us and their growth really skyrocketed. So that was good. And financial services also saw a really big increase in revenues and things. You could say it was due to inflation and other market economics but both ended up being really strong markets to ride. And so as we did that, we developed this deep expertise in those two industries.
Lauren (04:28):
Okay. And can you tell us, so I heard SaaS and the financial services realm. Are you working with wealth management firms? Is it payroll? Is there a specific deeper target there?
Spencer (04:41):
Yeah, so in the financial services space, we do touch on a lot of different areas, but probably about 50, 60% of our financial services customers are RIAs and wealth management firms. So we do a lot with wealth management but then the rest is a mix of things. Everything from community credit unions to private equity, venture capital. We've done all sorts of other REITs, different things on the fringe but really we do a lot in that wealth management space.
Lauren (05:11):
Yes, so we're definitely speaking the same world. We do a lot in that world as well. So tell me a little bit more. When folks are coming to you guys, what kind of needs do they have? Is it just a hot mess in Salesforce? Have they even started Salesforce? Are they shopping around? Do they usually have an ops person? What's the state? Is there a status quo these companies are coming to you with?
Spencer (05:37):
There's a pretty wide range of circumstances people come to us with. The most common way we get introduced to a customer is actually when they're talking to Salesforce. So a lot of the companies we work with, the start of our relationship, we've built up such a strong reputation with Salesforce that their reps, they have these different wealth management firms, they'll bring them to us and say, hey, here's a firm that specializes and can help you with your evaluations. Often they're sort of mid-CRM evaluation. And so that's the most common link between all of these customers that come into our realm. Some of them come to us because they had trouble, their information implementation didn't go the way they wanted. They have frustrations with their CRM, so they'll come to us from that. But most common is that they're evaluating either changing from something like Redtail or the other big players out there.
They might be coming from just nothing like spreadsheets or even we have had some that are from paper processes and they're just now digitizing their business. So one of those backgrounds leads to this evaluation of a CRM. They get in conversation with Salesforce, Salesforce loops us in. And so then we're trying to help them understand what's the cost of implementation, what is the complexity, what do we do in the first phase versus not, how are they going to manage it long term? What value does it offer to their business? And so there's a wide range of things but some of the common themes are they need a way obviously to track their customers. They usually want some form of custodial integration. There's a lot of other possible integrations they're considering that they got to price out and see if there's really a high ROI on that or not. And then there's obviously the desire is around more efficiency, generally speaking, they want to be able to better manage these relationships with the customer, have it not be so paper heavy or manual process heavy but still provide a really exceptional experience to their customers, stay on top of their annual reviews, get all the documents out. So there's often a lot of DocGen type requirements or different forms requirements. So those are the common themes we see.
Lauren (07:36):
Okay. So with that, I want to go into this customer experience component a little bit more. It’s so critical to this demographic, being able to really have those well-nurtured relationships, staying top of mind in an authentic way. And I had several conversations recently with folks about how CRMs can do just that. So what kind of things are you seeing that are working well from checks and balances or things you're implementing on your side that would help to nurture those relationships? Are you wireframing workflows? Are they handing them off to you? What kind of things, if you could say to a wealth management firm, are the top three things to consider when you're building out your CRM that are going to impact your actual customer service? What would you say?
Spencer (08:21):
That's a good question. A few that come to mind. The number one thing that came to my mind as you were asking that question is just the tool will not change your business.
Lauren (08:32):
Yes. Totally.
Spencer (08:33):
Tools are tools. Let's say you have a dirt digging business and you've been using a shovel for years and you're really great with shovels. If I just give you a backhoe, you're probably going to kill somebody. So a backhoe moves dirt way better than a shovel does but that's a big change for your business. Knowing especially if you're coming from paper processes, but the more antiquated your current processes are, you need to be realistic about the fact this is a very significant impact to your business, meaning change management, training, actually making sure your processes make sense before you try to automate things. Sometimes customers really try to make the jump from manual to highly automated, and there's a lot of risks fraught around that we could talk through. So there's some big pitfalls there where people will look at the tool and go, oh, good, this is world-class. It's the top tool in CRM across all our issues. So for sure it's just going to work out of the box. It's going to be great and it's going to save us, it's going to solve our problems. It's not. Salesforce's job is to sell you on ways that could solve your problems. Our job is to support you in actually helping it get to the point that it's solving the problems.
But it can't replace strong vision and leadership internal to the company. You can't do it without strong change management. And you've got to really be processed first and make sure to your point, that you start with a clear understanding of the current business processes, the future state of what those business processes are going to look like as you incorporate the new tools. And then you bridge that gap. And that's something we do on all our projects is we start with the current state analysis and map out what the future state's going to look like. And some people will ask us like, oh, but why are we wasting time on this? We just want to go to the way we're going to do it in the future. And the problem is, if we don't know how you're doing it today, then things get missed. If you just jump into this great future, all of a sudden you're like, wait, Sally used to manually send a birthday card to these people or a happy anniversary card.
That was nowhere in the diagram and now it's not happening and now our customers don't feel valued. So that's the first element: the tool is not your savior. It is a tool and it comes with all of the challenges, complexity, difficulty, and change management we just talked about but it can be a massive lever in terms of creating leverage for your business, accelerating outcomes, and being more efficient. But you need a clear vision on that. I think some firms, especially if you haven't been tech forward in the past — and the reality of financial services, it tends to be more of a laggard market in terms of tech — I think that's the first expectation I would really set around this.
Lauren (10:55):
So it's not necessarily like, okay, here are three things you should consider. It's more like there needs to be a whole needs analysis to be able to say where are you at and what are the key things that are critical to your business? And then we build around that. So we basically prioritize, make a timeline, so on and so forth.
Spencer (11:10):
Certainly. Yeah. And then as we look at the transition from whatever your current processes are into your new CRM sort of the second piece of advice I would give around this is don't try to do it all at once because of such a significant change. Our goal and our philosophy is to really simplify down to the smallest possible project that has an ROI. So if you get too small, there's no ROI on it but the second we can get the project up to a level of complexity that provides the ROI we need, that's what we want to try to limit our scope. People can get so carried away with, well, if this is possible and all these other things are possible, let's go. Especially entrepreneurs, these guys who have built their own business, who built these firms and have strong visions and are excited to move into the digital age, we want you to slow down and say, look, let's just get a base hit. Let's do something that's a really good transition because there's already enough chaos around transitioning systems. And then once that's stable, then let's add on. Yes, there's a long-term roadmap here of ways you can drive additional efficiency, more integrations, more customer value. But the second piece of advice is be really disciplined about keeping that scope as small as possible — to start with a clear idea of what the return is you're looking for, get to that return and then layer on the additional levels.
Lauren (12:25):
So moving slowly, don't expect this to be a change overnight.
Spencer (12:30):
Yes, a hundred percent.
Lauren (12:32):
Okay. Can you talk a little bit more about just the nuances of Salesforce and specifically as it relates to the financial services space, is there a specific Salesforce version? Are there things to be aware of for compliance? Are there things a firm should be asking or individuals should be asking if they're thinking about using this platform or maybe they're like, I don't know, to be aware of?
Spencer (12:58):
Yeah, there's a lot to be aware of on this front. So a couple of things I would point out right off the bat. Salesforce is both a software, or actually I should say they sell many softwares, cloud software, and it is a platform on which you can build, and not only can you build but other companies can build. Now, here's why that's really important to understand. You can buy Salesforce not from Salesforce, so you can buy what is the platform of Salesforce. It has a custom-built solution on it from a bunch of different companies, including in some cases, for example, Fidelity used to have a version of Salesforce they would sell you that came with their setup of integrating,
Lauren (13:40):
Oh, interesting. I had no idea.
Spencer (13:42):
So they don't do that anymore and how they just focus on providing the connector but there are several examples of that. So you might hear a firm advertise like, oh, we're built on Salesforce, and so you're getting our proprietary solution with all the flexibility of Salesforce. It's not exactly true. So when someone builds on top of Salesforce, you get proprietary software with only the accounts, contacts, and very base-level platform functionality of Salesforce underneath it. And if in the future you want to get additional functionality that Salesforce has out of the box, you'd have to migrate entirely to core Salesforce, to base Salesforce. So that's a painful realization for people later that if you start on one of these specialized tools and it's not your long-term solution, you can't just flip a switch and say, well, now I'm just going to do vanilla Salesforce without that.
The first thing is you have to know if you're looking at Salesforce or you're looking at providers that build on Salesforce; there's lots of different options and the one most firms need to look at is the most powerful version. I'll talk more about why in a second, but it's Financial Services Cloud from Salesforce. So it means you're buying direct from Salesforce and you're buying from their Financial Services Cloud team. You might initially, depending on how you put your information into a web form or you reach out to them, end up talking to a core team that's just trying to sell you Sales Cloud or Service Cloud and they say, oh, this is a great fit for your company. They say that because they get commissioned on that cloud. So if you're not talking to a Financial Services Cloud rep, you have to make sure you first and foremost get to a Financial Services Cloud rep who is going to actually look at selling you Financial Services Cloud because that's what's going to give you the most power downstream long term.
Lauren (15:26):
What makes it financial services? I just want to understand what's the difference? What are the bells and whistles this particular version offers versus the other tools?
Spencer (15:36):
There's many; I'm just going to call out a few that are really important. So first and foremost, they have what's called the Household Account model, which means instead of just having account records and contacts that maps to B2B sales where you have a company and then you have different people that work at that company. And then they also have a model that's called Person Accounts, where you can have just a person as a customer that maps to a B2C motion. In Financial Services Cloud there's sort of this custom hybrid version of that called the House model where you have individuals but they're grouped into households, and so if I'm trying to work with a family and manage their different investments and their future, I'm sort of B2C but I'm also sort of selling to a group or an entity or a group of entities, and in some cases I might need to keep track of the collection of entities this person is related to.
I might have their family grouping, their household, but I might also need to keep track of their estate being like a trust or the business they own. And as I look at these different things, Financial Services Cloud gives a much more robust relationships model to be able to track all that in a way that's very powerful for financial services firms. So that's the first difference you really want to be aware of. The second one is they give you a set of automations called OmniStudio, and without going down a rabbit hole, it's a very powerful tool that allows you to customize your system and integrate your system faster than normal Salesforce and at a lower cost. And so it's a really valuable tool that's added onto that license. The other thing about this is as more and more traction has been made with Financial Services Cloud, most of the integrations that get prebuilt for a firm that is in the financial services space, if they build an integration, your integration has to be compatible with the version of Salesforce you're on.
So most of them are going to make it compatible with Financial Services Cloud, not necessarily Sales Cloud. Sometimes it'll do both. Sometimes it'll only be Sales Cloud. We can't control the third-party vendors but increasingly what we're seeing in the market is that all the new and latest integrations are being mapped specifically to Financial Services Cloud. So this advice gets back to a core element that people have to understand about why would you even go to Salesforce in the first place, which is it's going to be more complex, it's going to be more costly to set up and more costly to maintain than a Redtail or Wealthbox or these other tools. In fact, if you were to just go one to the other with a very lightweight implementation, you might have even less functionality than those tools at the start. And that's because Salesforce is a platform, so there's so much power and it's very robust.
The reporting is way more powerful, the integrations are way more powerful. That all has to be set up. And so you're buying the higher complexity tool. And so if there's not an ROI in that, if you just need something simple, I would say their base functionality is improving over time as they continue, they're constantly releasing new features and making it better. So I think the base financial services are getting much more competitive head-to-head with a Redtail or something but you're probably a little bit feature light head-to-head compared to those tools and the cost will certainly be higher. So it's harder to justify the ROI head-to-head at the very entry level but as soon as you're looking at some of these other third-party integrations and some of the additional functionality you can extend or add on, that's where Salesforce starts to sail and really become high value for companies long term.
And so if you know that's not where you're going, Salesforce might not be the fit off the bat. But that's where if I'm going to buy a purpose-built tool and I look at something that's packaged up and repurposed like mortgage — I forget off the top of my head the name of it but there's a really popular mortgage offering that is built on top of Salesforce, but again, it's one of those OEM resold tools. That's a really good tool but it's the equivalent of a resell or anything else, even though it's built on the Salesforce platform and you can customize it more. Because of that, you'll never be able to flip a switch if you ever go to full Financial Services Cloud; that's a whole migration. So knowing that is really important. Okay, one more thing I want to share on this.
Spencer (19:50):
I know it’s a lot but another thing is there are different tiers. So you have different products, which we just talked about, things like Sales Cloud, Service Cloud, etc. But then Salesforce also has something called additions, which are tiers of their offering. And so they have on the Financial Services Cloud — I'd have to go back and check — I don't think they offer a Professional Edition tier, they might, but if they do, it's more than likely not something most firms are going to want just because their Professional Edition tends to be pretty lightweight. Again, maybe if you're comparing head to head with a Redtail, but by the time you're making the right choice, which is buying Salesforce for the power and for the automation, for the integration, all these other things, you're going to need the tools to get unlocked at the next tier. Enterprise is the tier you're going to start to look at, and then they have an unlimited edition above it that unlocks a bunch more functionality, including a lot of their latest AI functionality.
The most important thing to understand about tiers is what tier you're on is going to impact all of your licenses. There's a lot of different licenses you can buy on each of these tiers. So again, this is a very complex purchase. This is why companies work with us to make sure they're buying the right thing upfront. But when you then look at all your licenses, every license costs more on that higher tier. So it's a significant shift in investment, and you cannot move down a tier in the future. So if you start at Enterprise and you want to go to Professional, that's an org migration, you're doing a full data migration into a different system to get down into a smaller thing. And the reason for that is not just because Salesforce are dirtbags and they're trying to take all your money. It's because once you unlock certain features, you can't unbuild.
So once you start building past that, the only way to move back is to do a migration. And that's expensive. Every migration is expensive. It's a huge change management cost. There's data issues in every migration. So knowing that, I would like to reduce the risk of someone coming in and going, oh, you know what? We need to cut costs. Could we just move down a level? You can't. So just know that's the thing. And with that, that's why it's so important to get the right licenses upfront and maximize your discounts upfront and then negotiate for discounts at every renewal. So there's a whole process around that as well that's important to understand. But the short of it is you want to make sure you get a good discount right from the outset. Financial Services Cloud as a team, they price it so high.
So if you look online at the different pricing, you can just ignore that. You need to talk to a rep because generally speaking, at a starting point, I don't see any deal on Financial Services Cloud that's not at least 30% off list and sometimes as high as 50 just on a month end. So there's a pretty big spread there because it's what's called a super skew to give you all this functionality we talked about. They combine a bunch of other tools. So if a company like mine was to buy it and use all of its tools, it would be worth its list price of like $300 or $500 a user. It's way up there, depending on what tier you're at. For enterprise users, most people are not paying that. Most people are paying $150, $170 a user, which can scare you off from Salesforce. If you don't realize how heavy they discount the financial services space, look at their list prices like, oh, this isn't even feasible. So just understand upfront, you're probably starting on Enterprise edition for most companies. You want to start on Financial Services Cloud. Again, this is generic, your situation might be different, so talk to a firm like ours and get some advice. But if you're starting on those two, the list is about $300 a user. You can actually usually get that to $150 to $190, somewhere in there, depending on your use case, the size of your company, how many licenses you buy, all that.
Lauren (23:18):
Right, right. Oh my goodness; this is so helpful. And so yeah, don't just look at the sticker price. This is so great. I feel like this is just an overview of Salesforce, all the different platforms, the ins and outs of what you guys see. Are there any other final thoughts or takeaways you feel would be helpful for someone if they're entertaining working with you guys or even just getting Salesforce to start off with?
Spencer (23:41):
Yeah, I think some other just helpful tips is one, get a professional. And what I mean by that is there's a few ways you can do that. First and foremost, you can work with a consulting firm like us that does these implementations all the time. That's a smart move. You can hire someone that does this. We can talk a little bit about how you would evaluate whether or not there's a strong ROI, etc. But I would encourage most firms to understand that when you move to Salesforce specifically, this is true really of all systems, but it's just so especially true of Salesforce that I try to put a lot of attention on it, which is there's a long-term maintenance cost to every system. No system, even the simplest system, has no overhead; there's a certain amount of administrative overhead that needs to be accounted for. And the more complex and robust your system, the bigger that need is. And so if you're going to do a really complex or a really powerful implementation of Salesforce and you're going to get all this value out of it, you're probably going to need either an admin on staff, long term. Firms like us have long-term support subscription agreements where you can do it that way but you need to know this is not a set it and forget it type thing.
Lauren (24:45):
I was just thinking the exact same thing.
Spencer (24:47):
Yep. There's an initial implementation fee and then beyond that, you will need help if you want to either optimize the system or just keep it running well; it takes effort. So be realistic about what those costs are. One of the hard things for us is when we're in the sales cycle with Salesforce, they brought us into the deal and the pressure from them is for us to keep our costs as manageable as possible and not scare the customer away. So by the time we get involved in the deal, they don't want us coming and selling like a year-long support agreement next to the initial cost because it's going to inflate the view of the cost of the customer. They may not pull the trigger, and that's not to speak bad about Salesforce. They're just trying to be as effective as possible and sell their software.
So with that being understood, we are going to do our best to do that. We also feel like it's in the interest of the customer to do that, to help them make the choice, get them over the hump and do the high ROI thing, whatever that minimum scope is, it’s ROI. But they need to be aware as a customer that there is, and we say this during the sales process, you need to know that there's a long-term cost. So it's not like we hide it during the sales process but usually there's a certain amount of incentive for us to not be scoping that all out. And so as the customer already knows that's something they need to be thinking about, they can either ask us for it upfront or they can ask us on the side and just figure out, hey, what is this going to cost?
But as a customer, it's something you have to be aware of. What is the long-term, actual maintenance cost? What does it look like to do? Don't just assume that downstream the X, Y, Z add-ons are just going to be easy. They may or they may not; you'd be surprised sometimes. One of the most valuable things we do for our customers, we go in and flip a switch and it turns something on and it's ready. Sometimes this little incremental improvement takes $30,000. So depending on what's prebuilt, what's not, what your unique circumstances are, you need to get a quote and understand what is the complexity level to do this? Because that dramatically changes the rationale of whether or not you should. And that's one of the things we train our consultants on, is to push back on understanding the business value the customer wants, so we can actually advise them on whether or not they even should be doing that.
Because if they think, oh, this is going to save us 20 hours a week and it's going to be worth $50,000, a $100,000 this year, then great. Even if it costs $10, $20, $50,000, it's a no brainer for your business. But if it's something you're only going to get an hour's benefit out of and you don't tell that to us, and we think it's really valuable, like, oh, it's going to cost this. If you don't realize that upfront, you might start on a project that just has no ROI from the outset. And if you do understand it, but you're inflating your view of how it's going to help your business, we try to push back on that as well. Like, look, this is maybe not what you think it is. So we try to always get to what is the real business value behind what the customer's doing? And usually that boils down to some combination of they want to accelerate growth, they want to operate more efficiently, they want more visibility into their data and their customers. So when you understand which of those are trying to get to and how they think that's going to happen, then it's easier to be consultative and help them make the best decisions along the way.
Lauren (27:43):
So kind of in a nutshell with that whole takeaway is make sure you have a line item that's going to long-term project ongoing support. You're going to need it so you can do the high ROI initiative to be able to get you running but it's likely going to be a long-term investment. So it's almost like hiring a fractional employee, if you will, to be able to just constantly dial and make process improvements.
Spencer (28:07):
Certainly. And so Salesforce, in the past, they're moving a little bit away from this, but in the past they've done three major releases a year. So every time that happens, you need to be going in and looking if there's any critical updates, things like that. But then there's your vendors. Let's say you set up an integration with a third-party vendor, they're going to update their integration. Sometimes you have to go set that up.
And then if you really want to get the most out of the system, someone needs to be talking to your users on some sort of regularity and understanding what their friction points are, what they could be doing, where there could be more value. So there's just a lot of ways that plays out but there is some amount that should be accounted for ongoing.
Lauren (28:41):
Oh my goodness. Well, Spencer, thanks so much for sharing more than just your background. I feel like I got totally a download on Salesforce specifically for the financial services space. It was really good to hear those insights. If folks want to learn more, you can head over to SOLVD.cloud to check out Spencer's company. And thank you again. Appreciate it.
Spencer (29:03):
My pleasure.
